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My big idea
Hi, I am new here and have never owned or hired a camper van before. I am thinking about converting Sprinter, or Ducato. I have a wish-list, rear fixed double bed with rear door access to storage underneath. Wet room, large fridge freezer (100+lt), two burner hob, oven/grill, sink, 100lt water tank, waste tank (lt?), 2-3 large leisure batteries, 2 solar units, 240v hookup ect.
From what I have read, Sprinter`s aren`t wide enough for a full size transverse bed. So do I go for length ways bed? Or do I go for a Ducato?
Despite the leisure batteries, tanks and large fridge. I want this camper van to be as light as possible. I know this will not be easy, but from what I have read, many conversions use the old ply lining and this is thick and heavy...one guy kept the old ply floor..18mm ply!! So I need to find ways to reduce weight.
I like the idea of keeping the camper as understated as possible, not quite a stealth van, because I will need windows. Thinking of bonded, but worried about condensation. I am also amazed at how so few vans have cab air-con.
From what I have told you, which van? Given the work and conversion spend, there must be a maximum age/mileage, so van cost must justify the spend, so any opinions on this would be welcome. I also think the Sprinter will age better in terms of style??
Hope you go easy on me...very green, but very keen. :-)
Thanks Darran, we are an the same wavelength. There are loads of Sprinters to chose from, but very few new shape Ducato`s. And I do like the power from the big Ducato and all the bits that come with it, but there are so few around...do I go to Italy?lol Do I go for a new 2.2 Ducato, which seem highly discounted, but will stretch the budget?
What are your thoughts on van age v millage ?
Solar panels and roof vents, does anyone make a cowl which would hide these?
Dark bonded windows, two thirds length, does not make a van look like a camper...maybe I am wrong?
The other thing is insurance, what is a typical premium on a converted LWB van, assuming its been reregistered?
If you want a LHD for touring mainly in Europe then you could get one from Italy. It will surely be cheaper and easier to find.
As you say the discounts for the new Ducatos are massive. It's a great chance to get a new or nearly new vehicle that will last a long time.
I would generally prefer a newer van with more milage, than an older van with low mileage. Mainly because the improvements on new vehicles are considerable. With improved ride, much more power, generally better mpg, and mainly more reliable, although newer vans have more electronics which seem to be the main breakdown problems these days.
I've not seen any cowls for hiding whats on the roof. But it would be fairly easy to make something. How often do you look at the roof of a vehicle though? I think I'll be leaving mine.
I agree. Bonded windows blend in really well and don't draw attention to a vehicle. I am thinking of making a solid curtain from a piece of plywood cut to the exact shape of the window inner. Stick insulation on the inside, probably the foiled bubble-wrap type, then the same carpet as the lining on the other side. Instead of having a curtain at night I'll just put the board in the window. This will reduce condensation, insulate the window and block light.
Insurance premiums of a campervan are generally a lot less than a commercial vehicle.
Someone about 40 with lots of no claims might pay just £200 per year. Size of vehicle matters only a little with campervans.
Hi Darren, I've just started to explore your website, it looks great. I'll post some more long winded bit about myself as an introduction. And Hi Carl, as this is your thread!
I too am researching a Sprinter camper. Carl, you said "From what I have read, Sprinter`s aren`t wide enough for a full size transverse bed. So do I go for length ways bed? Or do I go for a Ducato?" I was wondering about this too. Most of the vans I've looked at (as in factory conversions) have been widened but some conversions stick to the original vehicle. They must be LWB with the bed lengthways (can you tell I'm new to this?). I've thought about the manoevrability issue of the LWB as well. The merc lwb is just shy of 7m. Personally I've never really had issues in towns with long vehicles (I used to live on a bus and more recently worked driving a lwb van) I think you just adapt (and take up more space!) eg go to the supermarket on weekday mornings etc. I did once have a problem with height in a hr van at a car-park barrier, long story and a lot of angry people!!
Btw the van I drove for work was a Renault, fantastic van, did 1000s of miles with no bother. I've driven Transits too, but only short term. A mate of mine had his own haulage company for many years and he only ever used Merc vans (then he went bust!)
As to the Ducato, I have no personal experience - just prejudices! I have looked at quite a few forums in my internet researches. I've come across very few threads about Mercs breaking down - usually requests for advice on repairing old vehicles. Camper van forums for Fiat on the otherhand are often lists of gripes about new and newish ducatos. There was one I was reading last weekend in German all about guys getting together a mass lawsuit to do with peeling paint on vans just out of warranty :-(
The impression I get is that the Sprinter costs £5 grand more-ish. "You get what you pay for" would seem to apply here.
I'm intending to buy a conversion not do one myself and the La Strada Nova (see below) looks good to me, even if a new one will cost me half the value of my house! So mostly it's Ducatos that camper van conversion companies use. I think that's a question of market-forces rather than what is the best van (a lower end price to be competitive).
My parents think I've lost the plot but I'm intending to sell up totally and live in a van and use a friend or relative for a postal address. I'm inclined to buy the best (and most reliable) van I can and from what I've read the Merc is out in front. I'm looking at big-league money to set myself up in this adventure but in the long term reliability pays back on the higher initial outlay.
I have some links for converted Sprinters so you can steal as many ideas as possible! I recommend sending off for their brochures too as they will give you hints on insulation techniques, layouts, cooker options, windows, gas/electric heating etc etc they usually list the brands of equipment they use.
Then on various forums you can find the suppliers.
I too am inclined to go for the provision for wildcamping - big water tank (100l), 2 leisure batteries and solar panels (expensive).
I'm going to make a cup of tea and do some more browsing... here's the links I have for converted vans, there are more in the UK that I haven't looked at because I'll be based (and will buy my van) on the continent:
http://www.lastrada-mobile.de/?app=configurator&category=1&itemid=9&menu...
http://www.kubus-reisemobile.de/kubus-impuls-reisemobil/
http://www.hrz-reisemobile.de/pages/modelle.php
http://www.westfalia-van.de/en/models/james-cook.html?no_cache=1
http://www.v-trek.com/mercedes-specification.html
(they're not sending out brochures at the mo as their cabinet maker has left)
http://www.cs-reisemobile.de/main.htm
Hi Dave in Cork, some fantastic links...the Germans are way ahead of us. It reminded me of my time as a child in Germany. My father was stationed out there, this was the mid to late 60`s and we had an apartment in a modern block. There were four joined blocks of eight apartments and four rows..these were very fancy by British standards (all occupied by US/UK)!! I don`t want to get into the war/finance, rights and wrongs, but returning to Britain was very depressing and I was only eight years old at the time. I had read about German/European camper vans, but the examples in your links were a revelation and this brought the memories back.
So, a couple of points; the Germans are using some sort of extending panel at the rear of the van, where the last side window would go, if you were fitting one. This allows for a transverse rear bed. I have not seen this on any British Sprinter van conversion...I wonder what the cost would be and MPG lost, if any???? And then there are these VERY HIGH roofs...so two double beds in a MWB Sprinter!! Again, cost and can it be done in the UK? Because of the very high roof, you have up to three levels..dining at cab level, kitchen/wet room up one step and then another step to the rear bed. I noticed in one picture, a large inspection hatch in the floor at kitchen level. I suppose this is how they get their larger water and waste tanks inboard and insulated??
This has has really taken me to another level...pardon the pun.lol Of course, I realise that Britain is a smaller market and economies of scale come into play, but I think us Brits are missing a trick.
Back to the drawing board!!
Camper Van Life is brought to you by Darren Lambert, a big fan of camper vans.
Hi Carl
You have very similar requirements to myself.
As you say the Sprinter is not as wide as the Ducato. When lined with 6mm plywood the Sprinter is 5' 9" wide inside. So a transverse bed is only suitable for those of about 5' 7". The Ducato is a little over 6' wide when lined.
Fitting the bed length ways greatly eats-into the interior space, however you can fit items alongside the length-ways bed.
For a length-ways bed in the Sprinter you really need the long wheel base Sprinter. This is a big vehicle and care is required where you drive and park. Supermarkets and carparks are difficult to negotiate.
The long wheel base Ducato is shorter than the long wheel base Sprinter, but the extra width means the bed can be transversely fitted.
I have gone for the medium wheel base Sprinter. I car park this in just about any car park space, but it means I cannot have the permanent bed, as it simply does not leave enough room for a dinning area and shower room.
I decided that the manoeuvrability of the van was ultimately more important to me than the permanent bed.
If you want the transverse bed and everything else you really need the Ducato long wheel base.
Plywood is used by all caravan and camper builders to some point. It's the lightest of the sheet woods, cheap, waterproof, heat resistent and flexible.
Most people use 6mm for lining the walls, 6mm or 4mm for the ceiling, 12mm+ for the floor, and 6mm - 12mm for cupboards, depending on whether a timbre frame is used or not.
You can cover the plywood with faux wood like a professional motorhome, or paint the plywood or cover with vinyl.
Some people use plastics. Others have used aluminium frames covered with plastic of veneered wood.
My Spriter is rated to carry 3.5t. It weights 2t empty, so I have 1.5t to play with. At present the dining area is fitted, 2 batteries and with the fridge, 2 people, water, clothes and food it still has plenty of weight to play with.
Mine is the 311CDi Sprinter. 110bhp. When loaded it still pulls very well and gives 30mpg+, but I drive lightly on the throttle.
I concentrate on keeping all of the weight down. For example cupboard shelves only need be 6mm. With a timbre batten at the front of the shelf it is strong enough.
Some people use heavy woods in everything they do, which will reduce the handling of the vehicle, wear it out quicker, and reduce speed whilst reducing mpg.
My old Sprinter was a stealth camper. I haven't put the windows in the new one yet. I am toying with keeping it understated with just a bonded window in the sliding door. However there are already 2 roof vents on the roof, and with 2 solar panels it will start to look more camper liker. Especially when the toiler door and water filler cap are added to the outside walls.
I am toying with the idea of added 2 or 3 double glazed windows, but I am keen to keep it stealth like.
Most vans are made cheap to make money, so air-con is considered a luxury. It also used more fuel, and is only any good when the engine is running.
I like the Sprinter, as it's very reliable and well built. Surface rust is an annoyance but easy to fix when it appears.
The Ducato is wider and the handbrake is on the right-hand side of the seat box, making it easier to get through to the cab from the back. The Ducato is front-wheel drive so the height of the van is lower than the Sprinter. But of course the Sprinter is rear-wheel drive and better on rough lanes and when fully loaded.
I bought a 2002 Sprinter with 96,000 miles on it. It is in great shape. My last one had 200,000 miles and is still going well.
I have read of some Sprinters doing 500,000 miles when properly serviced and cared for.
The Ducato will certainly not last as long, but you can buy a newer model for the same money.
Take you time and make a choice.
Maybe try and test drive them to see which you like.
Good luck and let us know what you're thinking.